Self-compassion and identity in language learning are two topics not discussed as often as they need to be. That’s why I love that Emily Harris is part of the conversation. She brings both topics to the forefront of how we think about language learning.

Before we begin…

Choose how you want to enjoy this episode – video with subtitles, podcast on the go, or read the blog version below.

The Video

The Podcast

Self-Compassion & Identity in Language Learning with Emily Harris

Links from this Conversation

Emily’s Mindful Multilinguals Collective: https://language-travel-adoptee.ck.page/f55e614c79

Emily’s podcast – Language Wellness & Identity: https://open.spotify.com/show/2eVbzHTByRNVbxlkPPoICO?utm_medium=share&utm_source=linktree

Emily’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/languagetraveladoptee

Emily’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/LangTravAdoptee

TL;DR – Lessons from this Conversation

I loved my conversation with Emily because it’s clear she’s someone who thinks a lot about language learning in a broader, holistic sense. You can tell she considers it as part of her life rather than considering it in isolation.

Emily was also really open and honest about her experience with different languages, including heritage language and how those experiences compare.

If you’ve ever felt separate from your language learning, or wondered about self-compassion or identity, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

Lindsay:

Hello, welcome back to another episode of How To Learn A Language.
I’m going to move my microphone closer.
It’s all good.
Um, I am, it’s another interview episode this, this, this week.
And I’m speaking with Emily Harris of Language Travel Adoptee over on Instagram.
She also hosts the Language Wellness and Identity podcast.
And lots of other amazing things really much like me very much big on self-compassion and bringing all of that into your language learning for a more sort of holistic look at everything rather than just thinking go go go goals goals goals you know so yeah it’s really cool to speak with Emily we talk a little bit about her experience with the kind of difference learning her heritage language versus Just loving languages in general and how there’s a difference there and what that’s like for her.
We also talk more about self-compassion, that sort of journey from like sort of affection to then allowing self-compassion in a little bit more and what that was like for her as well.
It’s a really interesting episode, lovely and just relaxing and re-energizing if you’ve been stuck on something lately with your languages, this is the one for you.
And all the links to everything are in the show notes.
If you want to catch up more with Emily, you can do so.
And as well, if you’re like, “yes, self-compassion, this is what I need, but I kind of don’t really get it.
What are you talking about?”
I have a video training that is going to be perfect for you.
It’s on demand, so you can sign up and then watch as and when you’re ready to do so.
And yeah, you can do that at the link in the show notes as well.
All right.
I will hand over now to me and Emily and our conversation and enjoy the rest of the episode.
Thank you.
Bye.
Hey Emily.

Emily:
Hello.

Lindsay:
Hello.
Thank you for joining me.

Emily:
Hi Lindsay.
I’m so glad to be here.
Thank you for having me on.

Lindsay:
No problem.
Thanks.
I’m glad we found the time to sit down and have this conversation.
And I always like to, as I’ve just said to you before we hit record, I always like to give people the chance to introduce themselves because you know you better than anyone in the world.
So would you like to introduce yourself for people who are maybe hearing you for the first time?

Emily:
Of course.
So my name is Emily and I am the face behind Language Travel Adoptee, which is mainly a YouTube channel.
Um, but I also love to utilize that YouTube channel and branch off into different aspects of language learning.
And of course I love to give the usual tips and resources that I was really encouraged by when I was just first starting out on my language learning journey about almost nine years ago, hard to believe.
Yeah, I think with with me though it has been a really a roller coaster ride is how I like to describe it and this roller coaster ride has really led me to where I am now where yes you know I still love languages I still love the tips and resources and debates about you know what does fluency mean
and everything but I think that the especially the YouTube language learning communities that I have been a part of.
They’re really lacking so much of the self-awareness and the mindfulness that I think really presents a much more holistic and I guess like self-compassionate, aware language learning journey and can really Infuse a lot more joy into the overall longevity of our language learning process and that is
what I was missing for the longest time in my own journey.
And I know that it’s been important to you as well Lindsay talking about self-compassion and that kind of awareness.
I am very open about my just being an adoptee and about that adoptee status.
I had had my language paradise, that was my name before.
In fact, I think when we had both spoken on woman and language back in 2021, that was still my name for the YouTube channel, but I did change it to Language Travel Adoptee because it really helped me in my most self-compassionate way, not only as a language learner, but also, you know, respecting the
person behind who I know exists behind all my languages, right?
It really shows how just for me, I can show up in my most authentic way.
And of course I encourage others to do the same too, right?
And so I want to be embodying what I preach so just showing up like really authentically and just being really vulnerable and knowing that what I’m saying will resonate with the right people so yeah that’s that’s about me.

Lindsay:
Brilliant, thank you.
I’m always really intrigued and interested and curious about When people have a heritage language and then also love languages, right?
And that is there for you a difference between learning, in your case Chinese, right?
And then other languages that you love to learn.
Do you find there’s a bit of a difference in that process and the kind of feelings towards the languages and everything like that?

Emily:
That is great to mention.

Lindsay:
We’re going straight into the deep end there, like, waste no time.

Emily:
We’re ready for it.
Yeah.
And I’m so glad you mentioned that because of course, right, being an adoptee, I was adopted before I was two, but I still came home speaking Chinese.
So technically it is my first language, but I did only speak English after that point and considered myself monolingual until I started my first foreign language officially, which was German.
It was not anything close to like any Asian language.
And there’s so much that I could say about that.
I mean, we could go on for hours about, you know, heritage languages and what I really had to go through, but I think one of the main differences is just the preparation mentally because I remember when I was learning German or Italian, those were my first two languages that I really, they really helped me fall in love with language learning.
And I found all the resources, I found all the right videos, all the right YouTubers, and I found the right listening materials for that because I knew That, of course, that’s what all the tips told me for the YouTube videos that I used to follow online for that.
And then heritage languages as though I feel like I have not seen pretty much anything about that specific aspect and so and also I mean heritage languages they are such you know languages connect us all right but I think that heritage languages it can bring on some really negative emotional
experiences depending on what people have been through and I’ve heard so many different stories from for example People who have come from families who have immigrated here and they’ve lost their language or they’re shamed about it in school and they just lose their language.
Of course, I’ve talked with other adoptees about losing their language just like I did.
I don’t really see it as my language, but it’s definitely a language lost, whatever that means for anyone depending on their story.
I think the preparation was the hardest.
I mean I know Chinese, you know, I’m a native English speaker so Chinese is of course categorized as one of those hardest ones but that is not how I see it and I think that’s why I’m not so scared of it.
I used to be super scared of like Arabic and Turkish and stuff because they’re so different from English but now it’s just like, you know what, I feel like the preparation going into it was the absolutely biggest hurdle to go over because it’s really the ultimate test of confronting yourself and
whatever that looks like for you but for me it was like well you know what I don’t feel like I’m being my most authentic self just talking about tips those are great but I feel like there’s something missing and I really had to dig deep especially with the pandemic coming and You know, facing
discrimination and just all of those horrible things that I had seen on the news about people who did look Asian and what happened to them and just really like finding those different communities first, right?
I think heritage language learners In a different sense, I mean in a similar sense to language learners, right?
We all like to hang around people with the same passion but I think with heritage language does come trauma, you know, to different degrees depending on the story and for that you really need a community.
I needed a community to heal and that was part of my preparation to even learn Chinese so it was literally Like over a decade long of preparation that I didn’t even know was preparation.
But it definitely, yeah, requires the ultimate test of confronting yourself with that.

Lindsay:
Wow.
I’m so intrigued.
Over a decade of preparation that you didn’t even know was preparation.
Wow.
That’s incredible.
And I guess all the other languages that you were learning formed part of that preparation, right?

Emily:
Oh, definitely.
Definitely.
I mean, there’s, we forget, again, when we are so, we’re such a goal oriented group, language learners in general.
And so we get so caught up in like the next thing and the next step and, Oh, this is awesome AI technology that we should all be using.
Oh gosh.
Like I have to learn the most efficiently and everything.
And we forget though, that there is so much more than just that, that we’ve already been using that we haven’t even realized.
Um, you know, in my case, it was a lot of, you know, preparing me for my heritage language journey, but there’s also a lot of patience.
There’s also a lot of resilience that we all have that we take for granted, or we don’t even really know that it’s benefiting us in any ways.
So we don’t really use it further to our advantage and to really add and embrace really the journey more, especially when we’re having a hard time.
Um, so yeah.

Lindsay:
Hmm.
Hmm.
And I guess that connects into our main sort of topic of discussion about self-compassion and mindfulness with language learning.
And when did you sort of realize, was that something from the start for you that you were pretty much like, this is key to my language learning, or when did it sort of raise its head and become clear that that was something that you needed to pay attention to?
Yeah, well, I think it really started with my very first talk that I had ever given during Women In Language back in 2021. 2021. And I think I was there to speak my truth instead of just giving the tips.
I mean, that was my very first time kind of stepping out into that territory.
And of course at that time I did not want to think about my own adoption at all.
I didn’t want to think about even learning like any Asian language at all because I had had, you know, so much thrown at me of others’ expectations on me because of how I looked.
And so of course, you know, that would make me Emily You need to really like sit down and truly internalize what is best for you in this moment and in order to do that you need to get to know yourself a lot more.
And have some stillness in your life because you are going all over the place.
You’re not even listening to I think what your body needs, what your mind, even what your soul needs if we’re getting really deep with it.
And so yeah, so it was Yeah, just those really little parts, you know, speaking at the conference, not totally getting to a super comfortable point, not even really wanting to confront adoption, but I was still talking about identity at the time and how identities can really change behind languages.
So that was a step in the right direction.
And then, you know, I had gotten small seeds of, as I had said before, like just negative experiences that even I had had through language learning of people telling me what they thought I should do.
And my pushback on that was really a sign for me to be like, no, there’s something deeper, but I’m not ready to confront it.
And then, yeah, and then, you know, just the pandemic, as I had said before, that was another push to it.
And then even just coming out and sharing my adoption story with really whoever would watch the video that I still have on, that was really Just the seeds that were planted that really made me feel like you know what I think I know now what I actually want to talk about or what I want to include in talking about what I want to make all of this for and really the the heritage language is is such a it’s just so different and it’s given me so much more perspective on how to be so much kinder to myself.
I think also sort of a difference between the languages that I learned before and Chinese is that there is no rush in internalizing those feelings and with adoption and belonging identities, I mean, they can change for us so much multiple times over our lifetime and I think with language learning,
you know, we want to get to that next chapter or we want to pass that next exam.
You know, I still want to pass some of my first proficiency exam so obviously like those ones have not gone away but it’s just Made me realize we can’t rush ourselves, we can’t rush what really lights us up, we can’t rush processing what has upset us or what’s been a struggle throughout our life.
There are just some things you can’t rush.
There are some things that just require you some days just being okay with being and not getting to always the next step, whatever that is, that we’re so concerned about as language learners.
So yeah, that’s really been a gift.
It was incredibly hard to really internalize that for myself but on the other side you know I feel so much calmer and I think with self-compassion comes a lot of self-trust as well which can really you know go out into other parts of your life not only as a language learner to you and that’s what I
love helping others discover as well.

Lindsay:
Did you feel rushed?
Did you feel rushed to need to learn, I suppose in particular Chinese, like there was an expectation?

Emily:
Well, I think I felt rushed with Pretty much almost any language that I learned before Chinese and I think with the heritage language part I mean that was when I knew that my own internalizing of just my whole story behind the heritage language that that was going to take a lifetime to A list of
keywords relevant to topics that may occur during the meeting.
Very self-critical of myself and I just always had thought if I don’t get fluent in this language before moving on to the next language then there’s no point and I failed.
You know all of those roundabout ruminating ways of thinking but with Chinese I thought you know what I’m just going to enjoy this experience for what it is because I know it’s going to be really hard emotionally at different points and I haven’t even gotten to the point where I know I’m emotionally
ready to talk with Native Speakers.
Not even with non-native speakers who want to help me, right?
So, and I just know it, I’m not going to rush it and it’s made it a much more enjoyable journey in a sense.
So yeah, that was really the first time where I could really feel in my heart that it was the right thing to not even care about fluency or whatever that meant, yeah.

Lindsay:
I love that, like a real ease to just enjoy whatever the process looked like, whatever the progress looked like to actually, I guess, find space in your life for that language and to form that relationship in a very kind of natural and slow and steady way, rather than try and shoehorn it in, right?

Yeah, that’s really beautiful.
I’m really happy that you found that place.
It sounds like before you went in to Chinese on that front, I’m wondering In terms of self-compassion, you mentioned there that you were the language learner that wanted to get fluent before moving on.
Would you describe yourself as a perfectionist or perhaps a sort of recovering perfectionist?
I know I work with a lot of people that use that whole phrase!
Would you describe yourself that way?

Emily:
Yeah, well, I think overall I am not so, yeah, I think self-compassion, I mean really embodying it, has helped me just put the perfectionism away.
And I think in other parts of my life, I am a recovering perfectionist, definitely.
But I think with language learning at least, that was the, I guess, introduction to another part of myself that I didn’t know existed, which was like, no, like there’s another way to think about this.
There’s another way to think your thoughts.
The world is not, you know, always what we see in our own heads.
And really distancing ourselves from those thoughts as well.
Those have been just a game changer for me.
And so in language learning, I’m not a perfectionist.
Outside of language learning, I definitely am recovering.
And I think if I were given another academic environment, like if I were to go to a language school or go in some kind of like immersive experience, you know, I haven’t been In that kind of environment for well ever since I graduated college which has been definitely a few years and that was still
when I was very much in my perfectionist mode and I think academics really exacerbated that and so going back into that environment it excites me in a way and it also was just like I may It may be a struggle to get like work with those perfectionist tendencies that I know I have in an academic
environment so it really depends on on the setting but nowadays I’m just like you know what if I forget you know if I know that I’ve been studying Spanish for four years and I remember this very specific situation where at work there was a woman that just randomly came up and started speaking
Spanish to me and I mean, I didn’t say anything.
My brain just totally went blank.
I didn’t understand.
Like, I couldn’t remember the word for Saturday, even in Spanish.
I was like, well, you know what, I’ve been studying this for a while, but know this is going to happen.
It’s going to happen in multiple languages and even as I expand, you know, learning other languages because I love them, you know, so much overall.
Even though they’ve been one of the greatest challenges for me emotionally and spiritually, like I, we still love them.
But yeah, it’s, when those things happen, I know that they’re going to happen.
I’m just like, you know, you just throw your hands up and you share it with others to make it known that they’re not alone because I know this happens to all of us.
Our brains cannot be on 100% of the time or sometimes even like 5% of the time depending on the day.
That’s definitely for me when I just need to decompress.
So yeah, so that’s really the sense of what I operate from is knowing, you know, I know myself the best and I loved how you introduced me at the beginning, right?
We all know ourselves the best and if we really learn to consistently operate from that and check in with ourselves super regularly then all the more beneficial for us and our language journey overall.

Lindsay:
Absolutely.
I wonder as well how kind of having moved past those sorts of feelings and tendencies with your language learning, the role that then sharing online and social media has played, because it would be really easy to assume that that would then apply some of that pressure again, that feeling of, oh, I’m
sharing, therefore this needs to be Perfect.
I need to showcase some kind of flawless language routine on my Instagram or on my YouTube.
How have you navigated that and found a self-compassionate place in terms of sharing your language learning online without kind of falling prey to the, those sorts of perfectionism tendencies again?

Emily:
Yeah, so that’s a great question.
And it used to really get to me before, well, I started creating videos during the pandemic.
And at that point, I mean, I was still very like, I have to be I have to be spot on with every single thing and speak as fast as I can, because I see that’s what other people are doing, especially on YouTube.
And so I think that what really helps me is staying true to my brand, which I’ve built it upon, you know, accepting the vulnerability, you know, and being what I want to see more of in the world and being vulnerable, right?
That doesn’t mean for me, according to my value set, that doesn’t mean trying to be something that I’m not in any given moment especially when I’m filming videos right and so yeah and it’s I would say vulnerability again self-compassion as we’ve been talking about coming from my experience with the heritage language learning and just getting used to showing my process like with every step of the way I mean I now post videos like even starting from the very bottom like as a beginner and I also like showcasing even just recording some lessons that I you know in German or Italian right those were
the first languages that I had really studied and that inspired me to go on but I haven’t lived in those countries for years and I think it’s important to also, you know, put my pride aside, remember my why and remember that it’s not, you know, it’s definitely, I guess, still adhering to what I would like to see online.
Just people being transparent, especially on YouTube about like how is your language learning today or even after living in the country and you know being the most advanced that you could be if you’re not in an environment anymore where that is the case and you’re not surrounded by the language you
know how does your language learning go on because you’re obviously not stopping.
So really showing those things and yeah, just remembering what I want to see in the world and encouraging others to just show up as their selves.
That is the most important thing to me.
Again, with my changing of my name, that was embodying what I want to see.
With what I post, I really try to be what I want to see.
Now it is a bit hard, of course, when we’re thinking about social media with algorithms, especially on YouTube, that is so important.
I just hear it all the time.
But, you know, there are, I think we all need the reminder sometimes that there are other ways to do things, whether that is in language learning or social media or anything like that.
And yeah, and just really knowing you know, I’m going to show my truth.
I’m going to show up the way that I want to no matter what anyone else is doing, which is a big part of self-compassion as well.
So yeah, and it’s just I think knowing that I’m finally allowing myself to make mistakes and not get so in my head about what I just said, those kinds of things.
That has even like really helped me with even my presence on camera or talking with you guys with anyone who I have on the podcast or on the channel or whoever I appear on with the podcast.
I mean, It’s kind of weird because it’s like a dichotomy, if I can say that.
I feel like, okay, I allow myself to make mistakes and be gentle to myself if they happen.
And of course they happen, but I feel like they happen a lot less often compared to when I was very imperfectionist mode and cared so, so much about it because I’m in such a more relaxed state.
And my thoughts are so much clearer so that I can more articulately express them as well as in other languages.
I had always thought, you know, oh like what if I have to film a video with like talking with I don’t know another YouTuber in however many languages like oh I’m so scared like I would have to like take this kind of many lessons and everything just to even prepare for that but now it’s like you know what I’m just gonna show up because I know that I trust myself enough to get through it however it looks like and this person is not gonna judge me like I think they will. So yeah it’s it’s really helped me be more articulate, honestly, by not, I wouldn’t say by not caring, but just by, by letting go, which is so hard to do, but yeah, I’ve, I’ve experimented with it and I’ve had so much success with it as well.
So that’s, that’s also what I, I really want to help other language learners with too on that front with their learning.

Lindsay:
That’s awesome.
And you’re right.
It’s not about not caring.
It’s about just relaxing into it I know that when I’ve done like podcast interviews in other languages like I did one in Italian and it’s like maybe sort of my third or fourth language you know kind of it’s okay but I know there’s going to be mistakes right and I did it intentionally to be like I want to show the process you know I’m not just going to wait until I’m quote unquote fluent before I even think about doing anything like that because I think it’s important that we see the middle of it all you know whatever stage that looks like and yeah it sounds like you are very much on the same page as me in that regard.
What would be some final sort of words of advice?
I know we said about like tips at the beginning of like, oh, there’s more, we can go deeper than, than just tips, but what would be some final words of advice for people who are thinking, Hmm, maybe I need to be a little bit more self-compassionate with myself in terms of language learning.
How would you encourage people to take steps in that direction?

Emily:
Yeah so and this is also what I talk about sort of in my own community that I made in order to have more consistent contact and also like see another face on the other end of YouTube comments basically to really hone in on this whole self-discovery process and of being you know more self-aware, self-compassionate, just my community with the Mindful Multilinguals Collective, the very first step that I always want them to reassess or assess for the first time if they’ve been felt really out of touch with that side of themselves is really finding your values first and foremost and really dissecting how their values have been spread out throughout their lives.
How have they been adhering to them?
Have you thought about them deeply?
Have you not?
And if you haven’t, what has been the products of that?
If there are any benefits or non-benefits for that, what are they?
And really building that from there.
Really thinking back and just taking time to reflect, just putting all of the language learning aside for a second because that’s really the base of what we operate from in our lives and if we’re not in touch with that then You’re definitely going to feel it in your in your body and in your mind.
I always talk about you know as well too like our we condition our bodies so much to these feelings over and over again again you know with perfectionism or self-criticism or anything like that and it’s really important to if you do want to change it right enhance that self-awareness by first taking
a break from what you’re doing from your busy life and Just giving yourself and honoring yourself in that moment.
Just giving yourself a little bit of time to go back on that and even like redefine your values if you need to.
That’s always a starting point.

Lindsay:
Wonderful.
Emily, thank you so much.
It’s been great to talk with you today.

Emily:
Yes, it’s been amazing, Lindsay.
Thank you so much.
It was an honor to be here.

Lindsay:
Thank you.
Where can people find out more about you online?
Yeah, so I am, my main channel is Language Travel Adoptee on YouTube, as I said before.
I also have my own podcast, the Language Wellness and Identity podcast, where I do talk a lot more about psychologically what goes on with us language learners in this regard that we’ve been talking about.
And then I also have my own community, as I said, the Mindful Multilinguals I only open doors a few times a year, so you can definitely get on the waitlist for that if you are interested in working more one-on-one with me in a really tight-knit group for accountability, but also to really enhance
that awareness that can really bring a lot more joy into our language learning, especially if you’re feeling very perfectionist and self-critical, overwhelmed, all those kinds of things.

Lindsay:
Excellent.
I’ll pop all the links to those in the show notes as well, of course.
All right, Emily, thank you so much.

Emily:

Yes.
Thank you, Lindsay.

Lindsay:
Thank you.